Posts by Steve Lowry

8

How many trees are felled/how much paper used for magazines?

by badboy in

jw
friends

only wondered!

Steve Lowry

Trees are not typically displaced to make paper. The vast majority of the paper that is used for reading (newspapers, books, magazines, etc.) is farmed for that purpose. It?s just like any crop that we would create by planting and harvesting. I work for a company that relies heavily on paper (a company you would quickly recognize) and several years ago I looked into issue, as I was concerned too that we would run out of trees and have no paper and I?d be looking for a job. But alas, no worries mate. It?s all farmed. There are millions of acres of planted trees now growing in forest crops that have the sole purpose of being used for paper. They can grow a tree now in just seven years, which can be cut down and used for paper. They immediately plant another tree in its place.

Sadly, I don?t see the Watchtower Society running out of paper to print it?s rubbish on in the foreseeable future.

15

Trinity

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

i still dont believe in the trinity doctrine completely.

lately though i have been reading other translations and listening to ex-jw testimonials online.

granted most of these testimonials are from ex-jw, born again christians.

Steve Lowry

"I don't believe the Trinity, makes no sense to me at all. First of all, Jesus was a Jew and Jews have never worshipped a 3 in 1 God."

When Jesus came upon the scene many old Jewish headsets got changed. As a matter of fact, Jews still don?t recognize or accept Jesus, to this day.

"I've taken some Religious Studies courses and I'm not surprised learn that alot of professors affirm that the Trinity wasn't officially accepted until the 4th century CE. . . ."

Yes, most folks who do a study into the history of the Church and the Trinity learn these things.

"There are other discrepancies in the bible which we now know are not true. The scriptures that tell us that the Romans use to release a prisoner to the Jews "as was the custom", is not true. There is absolutely no historical evidence that the Romans ever did such a thing. There is also no historical record of a mass murder by Herod where all the boys 2 years of age and under were slaughtered."

When it comes to who Jesus claimed to be as well as who His followers claimed Him to be, all we really have is the Bible. Now, if you want to accept some of the Bible as accurate and others parts of it as not accurate, then be careful you?re not making your criteria based on what it is that "doesn?t make sense" to you (i.e., the Trinity).

"I also read in The First Three Centuries of the Church that one of the deciding factors in the Church making the Trinity a "fact" is that they knew that the Jews worshipped a monothesis God---Yahweh. If Christians did that, they felt that it would reduce Christianity to Judaism."

While I?m not familiar with this work, I do know that many authors (that I have read) interpret their point of view of history as a matter of fact. Comments like these are sometimes based on what the author believed the people of that time?s motives were, and that can be a pretty hard thing to understand or determine a couple of centuries removed.

Mary, here?s how I look at it. Trinity, shminity. Call it what you want. Believe in it if you want, or don?t. I don?t necessarily believe in the "Trinity" myself (nor do I disbelieve it either). But if the scriptures haven?t been modified to re-describe who Jesus was, but the scriptures are true and accurate, then it seems rather obvious that Jesus was Divine. There are many, many passages of scripture that clearly show He was much more than just a man or an angle. He was God according to Scripture, the way I see it. And logic dictates that if there can be only One God then ergo, the two (Father and Son) must be equally God. I don?t presume to fully grasp this concept, but then there are lots of things I don?t fully grasp. But that doesn?t mean these things don?t exist (the vastness of the Universe, Light and it?s speed, etc.)

There?s a thing called a Trinity wheel. It shows many connections of scripture of the Old Testament to the New Testament concerning Christ?s Deity. I wish I could find it. I?ll look for it and if I can find it I?ll post it on the forum. It really helps one to see who Jesus claimed Himself to be as well as who Scripture claimed Him to be.

I?m not really interested here in a Trinity pro?s and con?s debate. Reason being, that I am now at the point in my spiritual evolution that I don?t even know if I accept the Bible as the word of God anymore anyway. But, when I went through the transition many years ago from the Jehovah?s Witness concept of plural gods to the Christian concept of one God with three personalities, I had to relearn the whole thing and it gave me great insight to Jesus, according to Scripture. This seems to be an emotionally charged issue for many folks. I have no emotional involvement with it anymore. But its an interesting issue and one that comes up from time to time on forums such as these.

Steve

15

Trinity

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

i still dont believe in the trinity doctrine completely.

lately though i have been reading other translations and listening to ex-jw testimonials online.

granted most of these testimonials are from ex-jw, born again christians.

Steve Lowry

Oh yea, the Trinity thang. Well, if?n you believe the Bible (for me I just don?t anymore if it?s the word of God or just a nice book with funny stories), then Jesus is Divine. He is God in the flesh, come to earth. While here on earth His divine nature was more implied than explained, and there were very sound and logical reasons for this approach. However, there are plenty of scriptures and passages that show just exactly who He was. As for Jesus being submissive to the Father, this doesn?t conflict with the Trinity concept. Jesus said the Father is greater than I. He never said the Father is better than I. This is an important distinction because, greater is a relative position and better is a statement of quality. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are equal in quality but are different in position. Just as a father is greater than his son in mortal terms. But the father is not better, or that is to say he is not more human then son. Both are equally human, but different in position. It?s kinda like that, the way I understand it.

Now, do I understand how all three can be One, but yet separate beings at the same time? Oh no. But therein lies faith to believe I suppose. When you stop to think about it, can we really pretend to know God?s nature fully considering we are but mortal beings. Nah.

People (especially former JW?s recently out) get all caught up in the whole Trinity thing. I say, relax and don?t worry about it too much. If you believe in the Bible then look for the implicit where Jesus? Deity is displayed and not so much the explicit. It?s in there, all over the place, if?n you wanna see it.

That Jesus was just an angel, is nonsense at best and blasphemous at worst.

14

Is the WT a parasitic organistion?

by badboy in

jw
friends

what do you think?

Steve Lowry

The Watchtower Society needs the JW. The JW doesn?t need the Watchtower Society. It kinda reminds me the animated film, ?A Bug?s Life?. The grasshoppers realize that it is they who need the ants to be able to survive, and they wanna keep the ants ignorant of this obvious fact. When the ants finally grasp this understanding and fight back, it?s all over for the Grasshoppers.

Without the follower, the Watchtower Society would have to close-up shop. In the movie the grasshoppers accomplish what they need from the ants by threatening them with annihilation. And in real life the Watchtower Society threatens the JW with alienation from God. About the same thing when you think about it. Fear is all in the mind, but it can be as real as life, even if it?s only imagined.

Oh, that people could be so smart as ants sometimes.

211

Go Get Em COSBY!!!

by Flash in

jw
friends

cosby has harsh words for black community

by don babwin, associated press writer

chicago - bill cosby (news) went off on another tirade against the black community thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere.

Steve Lowry

Forgive me for thinking someone of his stature (Bill Cosby) could do better.

I think he's doing just great! Keep up the good work Bill!

211

Go Get Em COSBY!!!

by Flash in

jw
friends

cosby has harsh words for black community

by don babwin, associated press writer

chicago - bill cosby (news) went off on another tirade against the black community thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere.

Steve Lowry

However, playing the blame game, though an inverted version in this case, is divisive and won't get anything done.

Why is it that when someone takes an action towards a problem there are those so quick to attack that action as ?non-effective?? Seems like Bill has done quite a lot and is continuing to do so. He obviously has a passion for education, and his own people.

I work in an area (a city of four million) where the Ebonics dialects can be so thick as it can be difficult to understand a person. I recently had a grown woman when asking me if I made something ask me the question this way, "Did you made this?" (sounded like, "Diyu may dis?") I don't think this is a very good example of how to converse, to younger folks regardless of race. Of course since I'm white, if I was to say anything I would be labled a racist. And when Bill Cosby tries to say something about it, he's either an Uncle Tom or he gets accused of playing the "blame game". He's spot on in his criticism. Maybe he'll have an impact in this area? I hope so.

I think it has been said here more than once that these are problems encountered by the youth of all races in this country.

Sounds to me like you're the one who is playing the blame game. Or at least, evading the issue. It kind of reminds me of how a JW will respond in defense of his religiion when someone shows him an obvious problem or issue concerning his faith. He often will respond, " What about the Catholics? Look at what THEY'RE doing".

Just because I can't save the world, that dosen't mean I can't be effective in reforming the JW religion. That's where my passion is. And Bill has his passion. You go Bill.

32

May I look inside your heads for a moment?

by SwampThing in

jw
friends

hello again, forum members.... well, as many of you have suggested, i?ve been reading, and reading, and reading... i?ve even purchased the book several of you recommended, "crisis of conscience.

" it should be delivered next week.

some of your stories are absolutely heart-wrenching.

Steve Lowry

I was raised a JW (from the age of about seven), so I guess I?m disqualified from answering. At that risk, I must say that even after being raised a JW and fully understanding the mind control and all the baggage that only a JW can understand, I still cannot imagine myself as an adult volunteering to be a JW. I left the group when I became a man (about 23 I think it was), because even though I didn?t completely realize it at the time, I could no longer allow that kind of control over my life by another (or group). It is a completely foreign concept to me now to allow such a thing to happen to me. Maybe, BECAUSE of the experience itself, I can?t imagine becoming one as an adult. I dunno. I know my JW mother likes to fantasize that I was never really a JW in the first place. Maybe she?s got something there.

Anyway, I?m always reminded of this analogy when this point comes up. (How do people hand over their lives to someone or some group?):

If you put a frog into boiling water, he?ll quickly jump out. But if you place him into cool water and then slowly turn up the heat, he?ll sit there and let himself cook to death.

It?s kinda like that. It sounds so nice at first (cool water) but by the time the truth of it sets in (boiling), its too late for the JW (frog).

11

Unseen Spirits do they help us or do they harm us?

by Celtic in

jw
friends

does anyone else remember this booklet?

if you do remember studying it as a child, what were the affects of this study on your imaginations?

how did this booklet play your fears?

Steve Lowry

Sleep paralysis or not, there IS something there. I have talked to it via the Ouija board, and I can tell you that there is some kind of intellectual existence that we cannot see with our physical eyes. I dunno exactly what it is for sure. But THAT it is, I am sure. Oh yea and it ain?t very nice either.

211

Go Get Em COSBY!!!

by Flash in

jw
friends

cosby has harsh words for black community

by don babwin, associated press writer

chicago - bill cosby (news) went off on another tirade against the black community thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere.

Steve Lowry

Bill Cosby may be cute as a crochety old black man "telling it like it is" but in dollars and cents it is the fact that balck people rarely bully their way throguth college with brute cash and are ingorant of what it takes to hip and hop thought the financial aid hoops with out having to play hoops or hip and hop because music and sports are still probally the more utillized schoolarships for african americans.

This comment is based on non-reality. When I went back to school in the late seventies, I also couldn?t afford an expensive college. So, I went to the local community college for something like a hundred bucks a semester. The classes were filled with black kids who were all too familiar with intuition aid and the whole community college thing. So please, that old argument about how black kids don?t know about what?s available to them is simple non-sense. Anyway, I didn?t qualify for aid so I had to pay for my education out of my own pocket (not like it was a great deal of money though). A good friend of mine got his CPA degree going to community college, BTW.

You gotta wanna. Anything else is just a lame ass excuse. Sorry, but that?s the way it is.

There's plenty of black kids (and anyone else who really wants it) going to college at night getting their future together. But it ain?t the path of lest resistance, ya know?

Stop making excuses for what you don?t have, and go get some.

38

What First Stumbled You?

by glitter in

jw
friends

what was the very first thing that "stumbled" you?

mine was: i was about 5 or 6 years old and of course i used to find it really hard to find things in my bible at meetings (couldn't find the books quick enough before they moved onto the next paragraph and used to get frustrated).

i had the idea to make little tabs for the edges of the pages so i could tell where the books were - so i asked mum to help me neatly write out the book names on tiny slips of paper and tape them inside.

Steve Lowry

Stumbled? Nah, I jump!

But I guess the first time I realized things weren?t quite right was when I was about 10 or so. I was talking to an old JW who actually went through the 1914 experience. He told me that they had believed completely that that year was to be the end (of this system of things), and they had it figured, right down the actual day. When I asked him how he felt the next day after and nothing happened, he said, "Oh, we all just laughed about it". Even at 10, I realize that I wouldn?t be laughing about being deceived that way. That was about 1965, and was to be a foreshadowing of my own personal experience when 1975?s false predictions rolled around. I had forgotten all about that encounter. In 1975, I too believed completely that the end was coming that year. When it didn?t, I didn?t laugh about it. It was the thing that helped me out.